Hello everyone this is adam meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this week in bitcoin today is September the 20th 2019 strong can be a unique piece now you're off the Bitcoin unconfessed a double one Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin affected by selling best guest in the space don't FOMO on all coins oh yeah we're gonna talk about that but yeah we got the best guest based in the space here we got guy Swann we got Christian who I just saw in person and we've got Jeff Andrew here baby and yeah we've got three guys on the show again so con that like button this we get Bitcoin here we are let's just jump into the crypto side of things we're gonna get into the big financial markets in a second but I I'm gonna throw I'm gonna toss it in the Christian here I was gonna start with Jeff and I'm gonna start a Christian Christian is it all season again you've been traveling around the world have people trying to Punk you up on alts because all its have pumped like the last four days what's up with that Christian I don't think it's arts all season and actually think everything was probably gonna go down soon but not financial advice I don't know like people people are going to try to pump this stuff up it's not all season so prolonged like you know gains just a few days I don't I don't buy it alright alright you're not you're not pumped on the alts you're not faux mowing on all it's good that's one of my sayings okay guys Juan what have you heard on the streets yes so I think I mean just like Christian said four day is that thing that's a stretch like every once in a while you go through particularly if it's been flat for a while you're gonna have those spikes up now I'm not because the hype cycle was so ridiculous in 2017 I'm not even leaving it completely out of the realm of possibility that there is another alt it doesn't make any sense I didn't think the first one made any sense so but I don't think it will look like it did last time I don't think it will be a rising tide raises all you know ships or whatever like I don't think I don't know this is not it this is just there are so many people that I know that I have talked to were like looking desperately for a Avenue like I'd like an opportunity to get out the any kind of like sustained growth is just going to be met with people so happy that they can finally dump that I don't I think we're a long way from anything on that front we're gonna talk about this more later in the show but I think it's just a symptom of you know when interest rates get too low it's the riskiest investments that sometimes in the short-term see the money for in because when nothing is you know generating any yield those dollars have to go somewhere so a lot of times it's the sketchiest riskiest investments in a very short term which is a category in which I'd put all clients that see the biggest benefit so yeah let's talk about that let's talk about the financial markets interest rates were just cut what is what is going on here Jeff well I mean it's it's interesting in a lot of different ways you know I think this is the first time that I can remember in my life where our politicians have been pretty open about the fact that the stock market is just easily manipulable by the central bank you know one of the things I've talked about a lot over time various outlets is I don't think that our stock market actually conveys meaningful price information anymore at all because I think it's just so beholden to you know central bank action that we're just really not getting any meaningful you know price data price communication by the market at all so I think you know what's happened is we've seen the president just sort of blatantly admit this and put pressure on the central bank to keep rates low because it helps short-term political force and that I'm not even being critical of that action because if you're if you're in the current system that we have today which is the system that they all have to operate in all of our politicians you'd be stupid to do that I mean he's basically just the first guy that's been smart enough to take that sort of action so you know I think that's that's my basic perspective on what's going on here at least on the US level now your Europe is talking negative rates doing negative rates are we gonna see negative rates in the United States are we is it eventually gonna spill into the consumer market Co banks charge negative rates on savings accounts it's my guess would be there's a definite possibility that we could see it in retail markets but usually most big proponents of negative interest rates and believe it or not there are a lot of people who not only say we shouldn't be afraid of negative interest rates but that there are a really good elegant solution to a lot of problems usually when those type of people make proposals there is some sort of a de minimis cutoff that eliminates most retail accounts from the negative rate so for it's something like you know it might even be something like the FDIC deposit limit where the first $250,000 of deposits are not subject to negative rates you'll probably see the negative rates at least for a long time only applied to very large deposits which mostly are gonna end up being corporate you know bank deposits all right all right very good there were something else I was going to ask about the negative rate sister wink so yeah your bizarre-o what's it mean for Bitcoin what what do you see all of this that's going on in the larger market what's it what's it mean for Bitcoin I mean everything's good for Bitcoin in the long term in seriousness and the long term it is good for a good coin right because it's all these things are acceleration ax stand on some level the current system has to collapse it's too strong of a word but it has to have some use a weird weird way to phrase this there has to be some level of crisis to the current system for Bitcoin to really start to take off and a lot of us including myself hope that that isn't like a complete and total collapse but regardless of how strong that sort of negative impact to our current financial system needs to be acceleration is amiss moves us further in that direction so I think you know certainly in the long term this is good for Bitcoin in the short term we still don't know whether investors in general sort of the broad scope of investors see the value proposition of Bitcoin yet well enough to understand that bitcoin is a hedge against these issues and there's still a lot of investors that therefore may still see Bitcoin as a risk on asset and therefore in the short term if there is you know a shaking shaking of confidence in the market there is certainly a possibility that the coin could actually have short-term price declines we just don't know yet whether the market at large has really started to no longer view Bitcoin as a risk or an asset yet but in the long term definitely good all right everyone found that like button guys Swan you I think you've retweeted this guess someone retweeting this the Fed will print an additional 75 billion dollars to correct the lending market that's 129 billion injected as an emergency within only a day they will apprentice much as the entire market cap of Bitcoin now that might some people argue about the entire numbers behind that but I get the point the Fed is playing with tremendous numbers here that a that are similar to what bitcoin is worth right now so guys what is your take on all this yeah just the fact that like in a comparison of market size it's it's pretty extraordinary to think that like that's the amount of money just in an overnight like a cuz I think the overnight interest rates like shot up to like 5% or something like that I even saw some money say was it 10% yeah very briefly shut up as high as 10% and they we still I started to catch off me but we still actually don't know why there's no like official explanation it's told why there was that dry up and see that's so that's so crazy though dude it just shows how unbelievably fragile everything is like it's sitting on like the thinnest of ice with cracks everywhere and they're just having to constantly throw money to smother the fire and obviously you know you end up putting more fuel on it down the road and just like bandra said that um like you can't there's no way that it doesn't eventually go negative because there's no way out except a massive corrections I don't see how it doesn't reach that point even if it's you know the us

is one of the last ones to get there um and we've already got what was it I think I think it was like 15 some odd trillion dollars of negative yielding like bonds and stuff now I mean just like the whole the whole space the fact that this is being normalized he's absolutely insane that we're we're totally just accepting and pretending it's completely legitimate to have someone have the ability to consume to consume scarce resources and get paid to do so like that's that's absolutely nuts like we could not have it more backwards and while I think like Bitcoin is I like you said still seen as a really risky asset I think in the long term it's just going to be this obvious elephant in the room for everything that they try to do for like just just bringing up that question like why is there no yield some like everywhere why do we have to constantly dump all of our money into these crappy nonsensical projects like like Jeff was talking about and like over inflate all this stuff cuz people are so desperate for yield they're desperate for like a real place to park their money so I don't know it's crazy discovered Bitcoin yet I'm glad we've got the insider information here I think the Fed will be able to keep all not doing this we've got a lot of blind people out there just be like happy with whatever they do I think but at least we know the right direction to go in Christian what's what's up with you and this whole situation so add onto what guy was sitting and how I'm saying the negative yields are and especially in the bond market that's kind of where it's happening first and I've been thinking about this and when I was in Riga talking to a lot of people about this and it this idea kind of came into my head that the bond market is literally turning into a Ponzi scheme the only way it's profitable if there's negative yields on the bond which means that you pay them to buy the bond is if you're expecting the interest rates to go further down so that way you're negative bond is less negative yielding than the newer ones and therefore it will appreciate that way you could sell it so it's literally a Ponzi scheme waiting waiting for you know yields to go lower and for you to dump your negative yields on you know whoever the present buyer is so I mean that's pretty crazy and I think that as Bitcoin gains it's windy it we've already already seeing it now that it's actually being injected into the conversation on like serious financial investing podcast pretty much on the news every day on CNBC and other things we're seeing books all the time so I think we are experiencing people becoming aware of this and it becoming very obvious and I would not be surprised in in the next few years if people seriously gets their Bitcoin did you guys see Travis clean on CNN dice that yeah I saw I saw some 120 watch it actually what'd he say I he literally did one of the most succinct like two and a half or three minute explanation of Bitcoin as hard money essentially insurance on all of this negative yielding like interest and the huge debt imbalance that we have to deal with he hid like a lot of the like name like Austrian ideas and the fact that it was immutable I mean it was it was the it was an incredibly succinct like almost Bitcoin maximalist narrative in an in an open discussion on CNN that I don't know I just just didn't expect to see it even when I see it on like CNBC it's usually buried under a lot of layers of ignorance but his level of having discovered it for himself just really surprised me and in the fact that it was immediately accepted as a legitimate argument like as a real position which I think anything like like six six years ago it would have just gotten laughed out of the room like like the whole perspective on all this is changing because I think there's this is this thing in the back of a lot of people's minds it's like something is so broken here like it can't work like this and so the discussion is getting wider and Bitcoin is making its way into the edges of all of these discussions and it just it blows my mind what that was what do you think about CNN having this crypto crazy week they had because five days in a row they had cryptocurrency people on but like the guy you spoke up this is this was a new thing you're talking you know off air you you brought up how younger people that they think differently about economics well now older people are getting exposed to Bitcoin also do you do any any thoughts that they would they were actually talking about this on CNN which is kind of crazy if you would've told me four years ago that's funny I didn't know about like seeing in Bitcoin week that if I see something on CNN it's because somebody shared it on twitter i reaiiy don't have any news but uh yeah that's that's that's crazy and particularly like with the younger generations there's there's a lot like bitcoin magazine actually just had article about a pax full survey and somebody else doing a survey and I think as like particularly as we get there there are ten eleven year old kids right now they have never lived in a world without Bitcoin and as that extends forward like it doesn't matter what the hired like the earlier generations older generations actually get in terms of education because those generations in ten years when those kid they're 20 years old they're it's not even gonna be a question in fact in the the survey they talked about it was like they generally would like like Jen's ears and Millennials um had an incredibly high proportion of people that are totally open to investing in Bitcoin new currencies and it was actually getting up to similar percentages I think it was like like low twenties or something whereas the avenues were like in the 30s like 33 37 % like depending on what they were asking about um but uh but that it's getting a comparable essentially I don't know the a comparable perception from the from the younger generations and that's always going to be on the table and I think the narrative is gonna completely change when there are people getting into that age group where they're the ones dominating the next run of investments when they're the ones deciding what the next big companies are gonna be and Bitcoin has just always been there Bitcoin is just obvious as a contender and it might be a bunch of 13 14 15 year-olds who can't get a bank account but they they're gonna buy stuff online like so something is going to fill that need somewhere and Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies really the only Avenue for a lot of them so I think I don't know there's gonna be a hell of a foundation in five or six years yeah a major move into the mainstream I like it 2028 having strong hand people those 10 year old today it won't be buying gold in 2028 they'll be talking about that 2028 having found that like button alright I want to go back to jet real quick to a previous subject matter and you can if you have something else we want to bring up that you've been meaning to say you say but my question is what did happen the other night when they had to inject that money into uh what was what happened for reasons that you know us being average slobs in finance terms we'll never know probably there's a lot of theories about this kind of thing there there's an issue where banks tend to lend to each other overnight so you know the whole financial system essentially relies upon this and I'm just giving you my understanding of what happened as best I know I'll go into what we don't know but these banks all have to lend overnight and to each other and typically a part of that are the fact that US Treasury dealers when they purchase Treasuries from the federal government they don't have necessarily all the cash on hand to do that nor do they need it in their mind because they turn around and resell those Treasuries they're a dealer in this case so they're also borrowing you know within this sort of market very very short term funds so these are these are like loans that are like eight or twelve hours we're talking about here so these are typically very very very low interest loans among very very very credit worthy parties right so like in other words if there's any sort of loan should bear a very low rate of interest this is it cuz it's all giant institutions that all know each other are lending to each other over very very short timeframes and for reasons that I have not yet heard a great explanation there was just a shortage of lenders the other night and as a result because there was such a shortage of lenders the interest rate shot up to insane levels and the Federal Reserve had to step in and sort of act as that lender of last resort sort of a bizarre situation and as I said as to why specifically a couple nights ago this happened I have not heard you know I don't work in the finance industry so I don't have any insider information and I haven't heard anything all that persuasive as to why this happened it remains a mystery but I do thank you for clarifying NASA everyone does kind of this is there's all sorts of rumors going on and stuff so we don't exactly know but there you go okay moving back into the land of a pure crypto here I want to ask the Christians that you've been traveling the world you might have a opinion on this tweet by Vinny Lang ham defy is clearly go to be the catalytic wave for the next phase of the crypto evolution so is defy the big catalyst of the next of the next phase of the crypto evolution what's up with this defy I've been hearing a lot about this lately Wow so before I answer that question I kind of wanted to add on to what Jeff was saying and he said there wasn't really an explanation but I think that this is a great example of just how fragile the current system is like any small thing could happen and then the Fed has to step in so you know the system currently is just kind of built on on sand and you know the house is gonna fall at some point and speaking of being built on sand that kind of seems what deep is built on this well I do a podcast with a big Syrian person David Hoffman at restless state podcast called POV crypto but essentially it's the Bitcoin burst etherium podcast and defy might be the most overly pump thing you can imagine if anything the only thing aetherium is being used for is a Ponzi scheme and tether and tether is being used to buy Bitcoin so eep is only strictly being used to trade Bitcoin that is the only use case for eath if you extrapolate that out defy has a tiny tiny amount of volume and usage on aetherium and it's quickly becoming extremely expensive for all the etherium enthusiasts to play on defy because tether is increasing the gas fees so high so we're seeing that each one is having all of these issues and that you know tether and other kind of like centralized bad actors quote-unquote are dumping their usage onto the etherium block space and really congesting aetherium and making it difficult for these deep I apps to act in terms of Vinny's comments then he says shit like this all the time so like I don't even know how to respond like this is not the first time he said something very bullish about some other altcoin thing it seems like he's always going with whatever the trend is and that's probably why a lot people consider him a counter indicator so I don't know personally I think Vinny is probably smart and malicious aka he's a scammer and he's just trying to dump his bags but you could also consider him incompetent just depends on your perspective well couldn't we just didn't he'll also say that Civic before he kind of like just stopped saying or talking about it at all because you know it lost people millions and millions of dollars was going to revolutionize identity like that was the most garbage coin ever he's still he's still talking about the UH I mean it's just things Civic is this thing he's still talking about the identity aspect of it a lot did Christian you're big you're bold there man he's right down the road for you man you got your good running to it I mean he was at the event we were at all right d4 so wait wait let's since we had a guy chime in there what is up with the UH what is up with define in your mind then I don't know there might be something there in just like a new use case for and or like kind of a new business model in an old industry like just in the idea of finance and expanding a little bit but in the context of like using a theory 'm or like I don't know I'm really skeptical it sounds like I don't know enough about it really to say anything all I all I hear is kind of the hype around it but it just sounds like it just sounds like the old narrative has died and it's not working for them anymore so like we got it we got a grab onto the next one that's gonna you know bring that money in so until I see something real I'm not it's just it's just noise to me that I think it's actually really simple to see why defy doesn't work lending right is based on trust the entire foundation of lending is you trust the per you lend the money to to pay you back and there's different ways you can do that either because you have a personal relationship with the borrower or because you've evaluated their trustful their trustworthiness which is basically what we call credit you know someone's credit score in a retail environment through some other subjective means so it doesn't make sense to take something where the whole foundation of this activity is trust and try to move it to a decentralized trustless model that's crazy you're it's just not what a decentralized trustless model is built for all right there's there's your aetherium a segment of the show this week guys hey I'm giving you the news I mean being here in Israel this this past week was blockchain week and there's a lot I mean there are a lot of people that believe in a theory and there are a lot of people building on it I will see say this so we will will have to see how this all how this all turns out something is going to happen it's it's either gonna work or it's gonna be a major fail and a lot of people really disappointed I don't know but yeah Vinny's talking some that's a big claim on his part there what he just said it's gonna be the catalyst of the next part of the crypto revolution it doesn't mean with we shall see it will be I mean I've got my popcorn and I got my Bitcoin because yeah that's that's what I I'm just I'm watchin it got nothing I don't have a horse in the etherium race man that's that's why bitcoin is the next Bitcoin and we shall see about the future of a theory I'm here okay so moving on to what are some other matters here that I have written down Kristen you talked about well Chris you've been you've been traveling around the world here what has this week brought you in terms of and just just meeting so many people I mean where have you been yes so I actually recently saw both both guy and Jeff here – – in Dallas and in in San Francisco so since pickle in 2019 this past June I've had the opportunity and privilege to go to a pretty much every Bitcoin conference so far I'm done now but I recently went to Baltic honeybadger in Riga as well as scaling Bitcoin where I saw Adam in Tel Aviv so it's been an epic ride and I can't believe I get paid to do this so it was definitely very fun and thank you to Bitcoin Magazine for making it possible but you know really just been seeing a ton of them amazing people a lot of great speakers Riga I really really enjoyed just the vibe as well as you know how many great people were getting on stage and talking so you know could not say hey you know better things about Baltic honey badgers really fantastic and in general bitcoiners are just amazing so I always enjoy hanging out with bitcoiners and it's a great way to spend a weekend so I highly recommend going to to a legitimate Bitcoin event anytime they're always amazing whether it's big or small alright so there's a positive note now we're gonna get into it with Jeff about something that some people don't think is very positive Jeff is a he's an accountant he's a lot of things so since I had won the show why not ask him about the IRS situation that everybody likes to ask me now again now the letters were sent out weeks ago now but Jeff can you give us an update on that situation yeah you know quick disclaimer I'm an attorney a tax attorney and a CPA but I'm not any of your tax attorney or CPA hey so consult with your own tax advisor that said if you got one of these letters that came in the mail from the IRS a few weeks back just one thing I always tell everyone is not to freak out about it everyone whose name popped up in McKoy based John Doe subpoena got one of these and these are part of a broader category of notices that we take in the industry tend to refer to as IRS soft notices and what a soft notice means it's not a notice that you per se have to respond to it's sort of the IRS just sending you a letter saying hey you may owe some additional tax here maybe you didn't claim this stuff take a look back at your return and see if you did it right if you didn't file an amendment if you did everything right you don't have to do anything and that's why it's a soft notice it doesn't necessarily require a response in fact most the time it doesn't require a response and in fact receiving it doesn't put you on any sort of a special list of particularly suspicious people it just means you're someone that may perhaps have to have a higher chance than normal of needing to go back take a look in a menu return so if you got one of these notices go back look at the return see if you claimed your stuff if you didn't contact your tax advisor or file an amendment no big deal all right guy I know you wanted to mention that Edward Snowden yeah I just uh I was curious to get everybody else's opinion illness to be honest because he's his a nubuck permanent record is excuse me it's coming out and it's a Mac millon Macmillan about publishing or whatnot and um supposedly he has a like his non-disclosure and stuff agreements with both the CIA and the NSA um well obviously he's been violating it since since anybody knew who the name Snowden was um but now they're they're going after and trying to sue him over the rights to the book because of the or sue him over any ability to like make profit from this as a violation of the non-disclosure agreement um just because they're supposed to he's supposed to send all information to the CIA and the NSA so that they can mark out anything that he's not supposed when like like Snowden's gonna do that but uh it's just a really interesting dynamic and supposedly a part as part of the agreement he's not allowed to make royalties off of anything like anything where he talks about like the CIA or NSA even if it's like fiction that supposedly he's like like permanently for the rest of his life he's just not able to royalties off of that so I don't I don't know it sounds like they're gonna be going after the publisher rather than snowden and then everybody on Twitter's like set up a BTC pay server well bhai your book under the table like I'd love to I'd love to get a copy so it's funny it may very well it may very well be real one of those things where it just proves the use case of Bitcoin did like it kind of laughing in the face of like oh yeah you're gonna control the market well we're just gonna print it ourselves and ship it out and everybody's gonna use Bitcoin so I just think it's a really funny dynamic yeah I mean I think if you guys want I can give a little background on the legal reasons why they're going after the publisher and what the attack vectors are here so the issue would be you know Bitcoin or no Bitcoin Snowden's in Russia Russia's probably not going to enforce a us judgment against him so their only angle to try and get at these proceeds is to you know take action against the publisher the publisher either I don't I don't know the publishers to the cleese headquartered in the United States whether they're headquartered in the US where they have offices in the US or whatever the court system of the United States is going to have jurisdiction over the publisher so that's why you would go after the the publisher in this case so even if you were to start accepting Bitcoin for the books it really wouldn't matter because the publisher would still be subject to the US courts and the government could get paid that way really the thing is he would have to start from a legal perspective selling the book directly without the publishers involvement to really get this off because then you know he's in Russia so they can't come knock down his door and you know hold him in jail for contempt of court and then he and the publisher you know they're not involved so they wouldn't be an attack vector either so that's really what you know the issue is going to be in terms of the royalties and the financial end of this you know for instance if he was accepting Fiat but selling without a public he had been selling in Fiat even if he didn't have a publisher in the US and was selling directly to the consumer the issue would be that the us court system would still have jurisdiction over visa master car discover American Express or even if he wasn't taking credit cards and he was just accepting you know dollars over a CH or something whatever banking came at rail was transmitting in the funds the u

s court system would easily get jurisdiction over and yet to be able to stop those payments so in order to sell directly to the consumer in this situation he both have to not have the publisher involved and be selling essentially with Bitcoin directly to the consumer alright thank you for that clarification Kristen do you have any thoughts on me edward snowden's it could be expected and excited to see what happens next excited to see if he goes hard on to Bitcoin and cryptocurrency and continues trying to sell the book but yeah popcorn and just waiting I just feel like you know there's just dominoes have effects happening and you know things are gonna continue going in bitcoins way awesome I'm Jeff I want to before the show you talk about the craziness over at we work there IPO and it's how it's related to the crazy financial situation of the world today to talk about that song we work being a unicorn is really the same phenomenon as an altcoin pump right I mean where when yields get low dollars have to chase some crazy investments just to maintain their value or grow and I think we works a good example of this you have a company that has all these insanely wacky stories about how its managed like it just came out this week that the CEOs wife if she would talk to you and you were an employee and she got a bad vibe the CEO would fire you even after a five-minute conversation or just a seemingly innocent conversation and just other bizarre things about the management team trafficking drugs interstate or internationally in their Jets I mean they were using it for recreational use not for resale but still that's obviously a major felony on you know on a company jet things like that just an example of you know just like all coins pumping yields go down because the those investments have to find somewhere where they can get some yield if the same thing with these companies you'll see unicorns get made that seemingly have no business at all being unicorns ouch all right guys you wanted to bring up you want to bring up the youth again you had something to say yeah yes so really right along those same lines with the whole we work in the I think is a great analogy to say that it's a lot of these like crap stocks that are um like having huge explosive like IPOs and stock valuations that make no sense whatever whatsoever is really very analogous to the whole altcoin bubble and it's people again like looking for yield and a in a literally a global market that is non-existent of it like because our imbalances are so bad but in conjunction with that and then you've got these things like the financial cracks I did just an overnight lending it takes the takes the interest rate from 2% to 10% in a matter of hours small move that's a huge move in the interest rate in a matter of hours so we're getting an insane level of volatility because it's obvious that we're sitting on cracks in our financial system and that we've built all this on top of sand so traditional assets that have seemed safe and secure and slow-moving for ages and the stock market in general is going to get more and more volatile as we move into the deeper and core sort of the back end of these imbalances starting to play themselves out and with the paxville survey on with the Bitcoin magazine article they talked about what were the biggest hindrances for the younger generations for the Millennials for the Jin Z's for investing in those versus traditional assets and the top concerns actually were not like education or like understanding it which is probably just a it's probably just a result of ignorance not the fact that they don't it's probably just they don't think they need to understand it now do they actually get it but that's actually a indication that they just see it as like a part of the market so it's not really important but so that was like a 14% but in the 30% range their biggest concerns were volatility and lack of trust and when you starts to introduce a lack of trust into the traditional supposedly safe markets and then at the same time we have this incredible underlying like gonna sneak up on you at any moment volatility in the safe traditional markets well Bitcoin doesn't look a whole lot different except for the fact that it's going up and has lots of yields so I think the that narrative is going to shift a lot when the safe havens look just as risky as all the alternatives so I don't know I just thought it was funny that those two big concerns were the reason they supposedly invest in traditional markets when those two big concerns are literally what is falling apart in the traditional markets I hope they the 20% smart ones will at least I mean some people just blindly do with you know their parents did or what they think is the right thing all right Christian I want to ask you about I I think I'll ask everyone about this but you probably heard their necks solid X they withdrew their ETF application yeah yeah yeah that's that's what's going on is that a big deal Christian so I think that both Jeff and guy probably are better to ask this question to but generally speaking from my understanding a couple weeks ago they had announced that they're gonna create a similar product to gbtc which is what a digital currency group does and that is a product that you a lot of people can get on like fidelity or something like that and it's not an ETF but some other form of investable Bitcoin product it usually has a premium so I think that because they announce that they're doing that kind of makes sense that once again they're gonna pull this thing back it seems like this is kind of political like this process seems very political instead of in objective process so I don't really know exactly you know what all of this means and how they're trying to play this game it seems like Vanek is our friend and they are friends at Bitcoin and I like what Kapur says on Twitter so I'm you know I think that they're doing their best to bring this product to the market so we'll see you know how and when it's gonna happen it seems like there's a lot of demand for it so yeah we'd love to hear what Jeff and guy want to say I mean that was a good take on the situation yeah Jeff what do you what do you have to say so yeah I agree Christian's mostly on point they're absolutely van X product the way I understand it is a little bit different from GPT see all of their structurally pretty much the same when I say different just different in their target market so gbtc is a sort of a closed-end fund which Christian says means it actually typically trades at a premium to just holding Bitcoin yourself but the reason the primary driver a gbtc adoption is because it's available on platforms like fidelity retail investors can buy it easily without having to understand Bitcoin and it also means they can buy it on those platforms within the context of an IRA or 401k or other retirement account very briefly a bit of shameless self-promotion for myself I offer a product where you can buy Bitcoin in your IRA or other retirement account hold the keys yourself not have to deal with gbtc and not pay a premium so hit me up on Twitter if that sounds good to you moving on to the van eck situation van x products the target market is a little bit different in that it's only going to be available to institutions so van X current product even if you have even if you want to buy into it it's going to be limited to large institutions so it's a different target and those institutions it really does make sense for them because they typically under their own regulations would be allowed oftentimes to custody their own Bitcoin that would be too high of a liability for them so for those sorts of organizations I think the Vanek product that they are in fact coming out with makes sense it's notable to keep in mind that even when van X ETF product was the application was still pending before they would Druitt the van eck ETF was not a retail ETF they were going to set the share price high enough such that it would only be available to large institutions so well in that respect there's really no change they their approach and I don't know anybody have an act but what their approach seems to be from all the public information that I have is that they first really want to nail this sort of thing down as an institutional product before they even think about moving in a retail investor direction all right but now ETF talk through social media Bitcoin social media it's been so huge over the last two years I say we're just a day closer to someone finally getting this thing off the getting a real ETF off the ground Christian says it is political I agree I mean there's a lot there's a lot of politics behind this do you see so pulling this off in 2020 I don't think the ETF actually matters at the retail level because I think before an ETF gets approved Ameritrade and or fidelity are just gonna offer direct custody of Bitcoin and their normal everyday you know discount brokerage accounts they're both working on it so that kind of almost makes an etf move I mean if fidelity and Ameritrade do that it's gonna really lower the market for an ETF right because a lot of people would just get in and out of Bitcoin even if they don't want to hold their own keys using you know what's fidelity in a meritorious count brokers would follow so I think it's more likely that we're gonna see something like that before we see an ETF just because it won't require as rigorous of you know compliance issues guys one yeah I was that was that was my thought on the whole thing is that I think it was a really good like height thing that everybody got super excited about and but really the whole whole that whole period has just died down and it's now kind of old news like I didn't even know about it until you were just talking about it and it looks like back is still moving forward on fidelity I've been like trying to stay up to date because they put doing I've been really surprised at how like technically proficient and health thorough they are and their understanding a bit coining like what cryptocurrencies are actually used for and Bitcoin is such a versatile asset being programmable and with all these like shared custody well like systems and the shared key stuff that is become more moral a norm in like all my main wallets right and our all multi SIG's except for SATs app which talks to a multi sig and so it's like it really is the game is changing really quick and I think I think if it takes another year for an ETF to come out we'll have alternatives that are better and more direct to the point that the market won't care um just like he said you'll have custody with fidelity and Ameritrade and every major one that's worth their salt that it just won't I just won't matter you'll have so many avenues that it's not important it'll be a moot point like Jeff said okay well we have reached the end here of this show but everyone I want to give everybody a chance to give their conclusionary remarks bring up any stories they didn't they wanted to bring up again all these guys are linked to below they're their Twitter's so you can investigate them DM them and talk to them we'll start with Christian what's what's up man anything that got left out and you wanted to bring up anything San Francisco how's Libra down Adam first of all thanks a lot for having me on the show you always get the best panel together for Friday so honored to be included yet again in terms of Libra I think that they're showing why decentralisation because it seems like every government is targeting them not much to say there except for a nice case study and lastly San Francisco is beautiful happy to be back and I hope to stay put for a little bit but I think I hate everything I need to say I think Adam gives the best advice strong hands long-term thinking by the dip all right town that like button people long-term thinking the full gratification alright Jeff what's up any thoughts I didn't ask you about Libra so I asked you about Libra too uh well all right so before I get into that I one thing I do want to mention that didn't come up so as I mentioned before my day job is a product where you can hold Bitcoin in your IRA and holds your own keys no markup but I'm also involved as a volunteer in the BTC Pei server project both as developer of plugins and the Python library for BTC pay and also on BTC pay sort of newest project which is the BTC pay foundation I don't know if any of you guys have gotten a chance to hear about that but that's a way for businesses that rely on Bitcoin can actually provide sponsorship to the BTC pay server development team which really really helps keeping BTC pay server as a robust merchants solution and I'm a reversed a robust non-custodial solution for accepting Bitcoin it's really important to keep in mind a lot of these developers that work on BTC pay not me my contributions to BTC pay are pretty small but a lot of these other guys work either full-time or nearly full-time BTC PI server and until now I haven't been able to make any money off of it all it's been entirely volunteer so with the foundation this gives away for businesses and we really want to thank of course Square as the first business that made a grant to the BTC pay foundation can show their support for BTC pay server and then that money ends up going to the developers that really makes or what make BTC pay great so I really would have been remiss if I didn't mention that before we closed here for the day to go on Libra libras dead I think it's pretty obvious the the European Union is not gonna allow it in the EU and I think that's going to effectively you know for the most part be the end of it unless they launched it on a much smaller scale only in developing nations they could try and do something like that but even that would be difficult and would be a maybe not the opportunity not nearly as ambitious and opportunity as they were seeking Wow well I had heard that about we project a very very interesting we will go to God you get the last word man yeah that was actually just read the blog like yesterday about the square crypto um like grant so BTC b7 that was really awesome at the had gotten forgotten that you were actually involved in that um but that's really cool I've been I've been trying to trying to follow that more closely and I still I still have not set up my own BTC PI server I feel like a failure as a Bitcoin maximalist but uh yeah I just direct people to the show um if if you want to hear like I'm coming up on 300 quick reads now for like Bitcoin articles and like essays and papers all around the space like to make audio book versions for them and I finally the library has gotten so big now that I've been going back and being like I need a refresher on like some old lightning stuff or like topics around like energy energy conservation or the cost of energy and proof of work and stuff so I will go back and I can't remember you know 300 I mean how many hundreds maybe even a thousand hours worth of content now so I've been going back and listening myself for the first time in the last couple of weeks and it's been kind of funny but yeah that's the the crypto economy podcast and I also I will gladly accept recommendations I I love it when somebody finds an article that I didn't know about so I can read cuz I read all all the Bitcoin things and I just I just want to have I want to have the best collection out there unmanageable so yeah just direct people there yeah man you are definitely in motion is a very original idea that you have that you just read the articles you read it and people can look as a lot of people can't they can't breathe anymore so they're better they're better with the listening comprehension and you put it all out there I think it's a really it's a really original idea and it's it serves a great uh serves a great need in the community well dudes preciate it and thanks for having me on the show by the way man this this was great and I've had I've had a lot of fun I thank I thank all of you for returning to the show you're none of you are rookies you've all been here before it's great to have a veteran panel it's great to have this combo I had no idea that y'all met up beforehand I answer in Dallas or something like that you go that's great that's awesome it's a small world out here but hey the best guest in the space we do this show every Friday of course I do a new show every single day here on the bitcoinmeister channel Fridays that this weekend big coin show Saturday's the beyond big coin show so you'll see me there very soon i'm adam meister the bitcoin wishes from maestra members subscribe the channel like this video share this video pound that like button bang that bell button shabbat shalom see you all later saturday baba Zia